Talking With Kids About Violence

Cindy Lopez:
Welcome. My name is Cindy Lopez, the host of this CHC podcast, Voices of Compassion. We hope you find a little courage, feel connected and experience compassion every time you listen. Almost every day it seems that we’re exposed to various acts of violence from school shootings, to war and bombings and more. As a result, our kids can end up feeling confused and frightened, like they’re not safe. So how do we acknowledge that and talk about it with our kids? It’s important for our children to feel like they can ask questions and talk about their fear, but how do you do that and what’s the right timing? Should we wait until our kids come to us or should we bring it up? In today’s episode we talk with Audrey Schield, bilingual Associate Social Worker at CHC, as she shares her expertise and thoughts about how to have these critical conversations with our kids. Welcome Audrey.

Audrey Schield, ASW:
Hi, Cindy. I’ve been seeing a lot of kiddos, teens and families and talking a lot about the violence we’ve all been hearing about and some of us have been seeing lately. My work focuses a lot on trauma, so I’m grateful to be here with you talking about it together today.

Cindy Lopez:
Thanks so much Audrey. This topic talking about violence with kids, it’s so timely, right, unfortunately and kids can definitely experience trauma from just hearing about it or seeing it without having the actual kind of first person experience with it. So, you know, we’re exposed to those acts of violence every day:
school shootings, wars, bombings. With so much going on our kids can be confused and frightened and feeling like they’re not safe. So should we be talking about this with our kids or our students?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
Yes. Thank you for bringing this up today. It isn’t just kids who are feeling all of these big emotions. I know the other parents and providers that I work with are feeling this way too. So we should be having this conversation.

Cindy Lopez:
And how do you have that conversation? As a parent or a caregiver what would that look like?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
Well, deciding to have the conversation doesn’t mean that we want to show them all of our big feelings or give them a poker face. We want to be mindful of our verbal and nonverbal communication when we started out and open the space for them to ask us what they need, even if we don’t know the answers. What we say, the tone of our voice, our body language, it will all make an impact. So it helps to take a deep breath, check in with ourselves and be mindful of what we are feeling so that we can help kids regulate their own emotions and fears so they can build resilience with us when we start to talk about violence.

Cindy Lopez:
 What should the goal of that conversation be?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
What we really want to get out of the conversation is to encourage our kids to bring their questions to us. Always. It is okay if we don’t have the answers. Letting kids ask questions gives them the chance to gain some agency and control when so much violence makes them feel out of control and unsafe. When I see kids come in and they can be spiraling that’s when I know something too big has happened, that’s the first place I start when defining trauma is that it is too much for someone. Ultimately, we want to help kids regain a sense of safety and control.

Cindy Lopez:
 I think that goal around helping to provide a sense of agency and control for them is important. And so if kids start asking their parents questions or caregivers questions like what does that look like especially developmentally? I know at different ages those conversations probably look different. So, what advice do you have for parents around that or any talk tracks that you might use at different ages?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
Well, to start out with, like, I’ve been saying, if the kid is bringing questions then we should answer them because if we don’t, then they’re gonna ask someone else and we don’t know what kind of information they’re going to get. That doesn’t mean that we’re always going to give all of the information. So we’re gonna answer the question, no matter how old they are because kids know more than we think they do, and they can be persistent. Have you ever heard that? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Answering questions is different than exposing kids to media or possibly unsafe violent material itself.

I wanna be really clear about that because answering the questions can help respond to the anxious existing thoughts rather than creating more. I know that’s a fear a lot of parents bring to me is whether talking about violence is going to make a kiddo feel more unsafe. So like you said, the conversation is gonna look really different at different developmental stages. Also, I want parents to think about if their kid has a preexisting personal experience of trauma, a neurodevelopmental need or other mental health experiences that would impact what you share in response, so that you’re making sure that you respond at the appropriate level.  

Cindy Lopez:
Yeah, let’s start with preschool.

Audrey Schield, ASW:
So with young kids we forget sometimes just how poor their sense of time can be. When things that are really scarier are happening it can feel like they’re happening right now, or that they’re always happening. Preschool is also when you start to learn the concept of right and wrong, really strong moral differences. So when something really scary is happening like a violent event, preschoolers might show what we call regressive behaviors like poor toilet use and their play might change. They might be less imaginative when they play or have repetitive play. So as a parent, it’s useful to speak with them in really concrete terms, comfort them, reassure them and provide them a place to rest. I really want you to know that this can be normal for a couple of weeks after exposure to a violent event.

Cindy Lopez:
 I started out in education, in early childhood, and I love that preschool age because they’re so curious and asking questions and like, “why, why, why.” It doesn’t matter what you say, it’s always why. So I think that they may have questions ‘cause they might hear things if they’re going to preschool. And then also, as you said, just speak in concrete, calm, comforting kind of reassuring tones. And so then as preschoolers grow and become more school age, elementary school age kids, what would those conversations look like with them?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
Well, the first thing that happens is they have more language and so they also might have a deeper sense of empathy, which is great because you start to see them maybe caring for others. It can also be really challenging because some signs that they’re responding to violence maybe really deep feelings of guilt or shame or they’re stuck retelling parts of the story or hiding their emotions to try to protect other people. I’m thinking about this young girl that I was working with, and she was present at a shooting and afterwards didn’t tell her parents because she didn’t want them to worry about her, so starting to protect other people. She also started to talk a lot about guns. So retelling parts of the story, really focusing on that. So at that point, I talked to her parents about really helping her express her feelings and correcting this distorted thought of feeling guilty or like she did something wrong for being present at that time and helping her develop beliefs about her own safety that were more appropriate. Knowing that she has the right to safety and that that’s what her parents are there for to talk about these things.

Cindy Lopez:
So if parents like sense that their child is a little off and think that there might be something going on, they might have experienced something or been exposed to something traumatic, but their child’s not talking about it, do you have some advice for how parents could start that conversation? Questions they might ask?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
I love to use perspective taking because it offers the chance for the parent to empathize with the kid and also for the kiddo to correct the parent. For example, the parent might say, “if I were you, I would be feeling really overwhelmed right now.” Trying to name an emotion and ask the kid, “am I getting this right?” The kid then has the chance to correct the parent, like they can say, “no, I’m feeling really angry.” You’re opening a conversation there.

Cindy Lopez:
Yeah. I think especially at the younger age, they may not have the vocabulary so it’s nice for the parents to put some vocabulary out there for them so that the kids can respond to and say, “yeah, that’s it or no, that’s not it.”

Audrey Schield, ASW:
Yes. Sometimes I like to have families use emotion labeling tools and have parents model naming their emotions so that kids can then practice naming what they’re feeling while seeing that parents can have uncomfortable feelings too. With parents appropriately disclosing what they’re feeling, not going overboard and also naming that it’s okay not to be okay, that these things affect everyone.

Cindy Lopez:
Yeah.

Audrey Schield, ASW:
You can also invite your kids to talk to someone else if they don’t want to talk to you, that’s always an option. And noting that there’s maybe a change and pointing out who else is a safe and helpful person is useful when somebody is feeling so overwhelmed that they might not be thinking about the resources they already have, like school teachers or social workers or mental health resources in the community.

Mike:
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Cindy Lopez:
So we’ve talked a little bit about preschoolers, early childhood, and what that conversation could be like and then school age kids. So what about as they’re getting into adolescence, what do you do with teens? What is that conversation like?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
Well, we know that teens know a lot more than we think they do. So I always like to ask first, what do they know? And clarify the doubts that they might have, define what is actually happening because they continue to empathize more and more as they get older with the experiences outside of their own community. So teens might become more self-conscious to things happening outside of their own world and that might result in them hiding their fear response or other emotions. On the other hand, some teens might become self-destructive or have beliefs about revenge. Again, talk about these behaviors and especially anger and normalize these responses and brainstorm alternative ideas. So it’s okay to have these emotions. It’s the response to the emotion that you want to talk about changing because addressing the underlying feelings of helplessness is where we can provide some control.

Cindy Lopez:
As kids process and deal with these types of events, how can we help children deal with their fears about this? How can parents or educators or other caregivers talk with their kids about violence? You mentioned things like normalize or validate. So maybe you could talk a little bit more about those things.

Audrey Schield, ASW:
The National Traumatic Stress Network has a great model for having the conversation with kiddos and some of what they use and some of the approaches that I’ve found useful in trauma work start with opening the conversation, ask and validate the feelings first, so that kids know that it’s okay to have this conversation, and maybe find a spot that’s safe for them. I have a kid who loved to talk in the car because it was easier when they weren’t making direct eye contact, especially for teens sitting next to each other is so much easier. Maybe while doing an art project at the same time also gives kids something to do with their hands for kids who are maybe busier with their bodies and also can target some of that energy. So that gives you a chance to understand what are they feeling, and you can ask them questions, like, “what does it mean to you that this is happening,” so you can validate their feelings and get closer to their understanding of what’s going on, then investigate further and look for the myths, right? Like I said, kids know so much more than we think they do. Find out what they already know so you can clarify and clear up misunderstandings using what’s age appropriate, and if you don’t know the answer at that time, that’s okay. Ask them to ask all of their questions and write them down with you. So you show that you are taking their questions seriously and tell them that you’re gonna go find the answers if you don’t know a way to answer the question that’s appropriate for their age, you can also do this.

Cindy Lopez:
So as parents or caregivers I think sometimes we tune things out, but our kids may not be, right? Our kids might be just their little sponge, soaking it all up. So, as I think about that creating this kind of safe space, supportive space for kids, do you have any advice about that?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
I once had a supervisor tell me, play dumb. This is what she recommends I do in play therapy, and it’s a way to express total curiosity as an adult to get into the mind of a child. What does that mean? When you heard that there was a bomb, what does a bomb mean? What did that do, so that you can understand exactly from the perspective of your child, what they’ve seen and heard, and you can tell them that it’s okay to talk about these things, right? Understanding that they might try to protect you from things that are this scary. You can also be a role model by not just sharing your feelings, but also sharing your coping strategies and consider how you might limit your own news intake and notice how that impacts you so that you can continue to show up for your kids.

Cindy Lopez:
So what should parents do the next time there is a more high profile act of violence in the news or the media? How should they be prepared?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
Did anyone else’s heart rate go up when she asked that question because I think mine might have. I wanna recognize that it’s scary to think of a next time and avoiding this reality when we don’t know how to define or predict danger or violence does not help us or our kids. You can prepare by continuing to emphasize safety and how to respond in crisis. Point out where to go to receive help like hospitals and what numbers to memorize if the family is separated, especially for kids who don’t have a phone or if there isn’t access to a personal phone. Build trust in the community by exploring places where what I would call helpers work during decreased conflict that might be taking a walk past a firehouse normalizing that those places exist and are not always places of high conflict. You can also model elements of common humanity to help your kids build compassion for themselves and others. Letting themselves practice knowing it’s okay not to be okay after a difficult experience. Dr. Kristen Neff, a researcher on self-compassion reminds us that we say, “it’s only human,” that’s because nobody has all the answers. We all go through this.

Cindy Lopez:
I was thinking about not only like violence around us, but also natural disasters, whether it’s wildfires or earthquakes here in California that there are scary kinds of things that come up and building trust in your community and helping your kids know where to go when they feel unsafe or when they might be separated from you, I think those are really important and it applies to so many different types of situations.

Parents might be seeing different kinds of things with their kids in response to being exposed to acts of violence. So Audrey, what can we do in the aftermath of these types of events as a community?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
 I love that question. One of the first things that parents can do is provide reassurance by emphasizing the helpers, the first responders or medical staff, teachers or other community members during times of disaster. You can point out to your kids things like, see how quickly those emergency people got there by pointing them out your kids can also learn where to go for safety during a crisis and feel connected to their community. You can also build resilience by increasing connections in the community, by spending time at local community centers or spending time as a family keeping up with routines, even if they don’t have direct connections to the violent event that does build the sense of agency and control. Overall be patient. It’s normal to have difficulties as a community and as individuals and families afterwards. Young kids might have challenges with attention, concentration, mood, sleep defiance and if this goes on for several weeks after the event, that’s when I would consider getting more help. If you see anything that’s a risk to a kid’s life or self-harm, I would also recommend getting more immediate support. We’ll share resources for that too.

Cindy Lopez:
Audrey, as we wrap it up today, what do you really want our listeners to hear from you? Do you have any additional advice?

Audrey Schield, ASW:
I love what you’ve shared, Cindy, I would say to our listeners, you and your families are not alone. We are all getting through together.

Cindy Lopez:
Audrey thank you so much for talking about this topic with us today. To our listeners, if your child is experiencing some kind of trauma or they’ve been exposed to some violent event and you’ve had conversations with them and you’re feeling like they need more help, please reach out. You can reach us at chconline.org. You can also contact our care team if you’re interested in making appointment, even a free parent consultation the care team email is careteam@online.org. Thank you to our listeners for joining us today, and we hope you’ll listen in again to next week’s episode.

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