March 5, 2021
Cindy Lopez:
[00:00:00] Welcome to Voices of Compassion, CHC’s podcast series providing courage, connection and compassion, highlighting topics that matter to our community, our parents, families, educators and other professionals. I’m Cindy Lopez Today, we’re talking about dialectical behavioral therapy or DBT. Is your teen experiencing difficulty sleeping or concentrating, mood swings, excessive worrying, withdrawing from friends or self-harm. If so we know you’re worried and need help. DBT could be a valuable tool for you and your family. It’s an intensive therapeutic approach, teaching social emotional and resilience skills for life. It’s evidence-based treatment with skills that focus on mindfulness, interpersonal effectiveness and communication, emotion regulation and distress tolerance. Listen to today’s podcast with our guest, Kimm Angel, a parent who has learned a lot about DBT through experience. We are so grateful that she is willing to share her story with us today.
[00:01:09] So Kimm, it seems like we hear a lot about dialectical behavioral therapy or DBT. So can you tell us more about it and why you sought it out for your family?
Kimm Angel:
[00:01:20] Back in 2009, we had an incident, we had a home invasion and my daughter was present with myself and from that time, my daughter struggles with anxiety, social anxiety and we sought out therapy for many years. And then in about 2017, the struggles were worsening. Panic attacks were almost daily, and she was finally diagnosed with PTSD from the event. Shortly after that we had discovered she was self-harming and that’s where things were just, I felt, we’re out of my hands. I had no idea what I was getting into and I kept hearing DBT. I never knew exactly what it was and when people ask me about it now, the best way to summarize it would just be regulating your emotions when in crisis or when having anxiety or planning ahead, that’s where we started.
Cindy Lopez:
[00:02:19] And so can you tell us a little bit about DBT for people who may not know what it is or how it might help?
Kimm Angel:
[00:02:28] Yes, so from what I’ve learned and how I communicate when people ask, the emotional regulation around it, those who are having difficulty controlling your emotions, and there’s different parts of it just kind of observing your state of mind, which I like to say reasonable mind, emotional mind and wise mind. And we definitely discovered a lot about ourselves through this. I’m definitely reasonable mind, it’s logic, it’s black and white, it says it in the book so it is true. And my older daughter, she’s definitely on the side of emotional mind, and it’s hard for me to see the truth out of emotions because it’s easy for me to say, well, that just doesn’t make sense ‘cause on paper, here’s the answer. And it took me a while to validate that her emotions were true as well and she is feeling fearful, she is feeling anxiety. And I may not know why, but it is true because her feelings are valued. And when we pull the reasonable mind and emotional mind together that’s where we create this safe place of wise mind. And it’s saying that what she is experiencing and seeing is true and what the book is saying is also true, and just really valuing each other’s emotions and even being able to teach yourself that it’s okay to be emotional or it’s okay to be reasonable.
Cindy Lopez:
[00:03:59] So, Kimm, first of all, I know this is a really personal story and we thank you for sharing it so authentically. And it’s really important for I think other parents to hear your story and your journey where you started and where you are now, which is in a much better place. So what might you tell other parents who are concerned about depression or self-harming behaviors that they’re seeing in their kids?
Kimm Angel:
[00:04:26] I would say the first thing is call your doctor immediately, even if you think you’re overreacting, even if you think a family member is overreacting, just call and check-in. I used CHC, the care manager team and they were amazing in guiding me and at the time I had Kaiser, so I really didn’t even know where to start cause I just assumed Kaiser didn’t have these programs, but they were able to guide me and point in the right direction with programs. They were really good about recommendations for therapists using Psychology Today, to look for therapists, but the first step is calling your doctor immediately and jumping on that thought or thoughts of other people cause your child they actually value your opinions, even though it may not seem like it. Keep your child safe, call your doctor immediately. Even with us, we already had a diagnosis, we thought it was the PTSD. And later on through DBT, we actually discovered that there was more trauma behind it, and we would’ve never been able to address that without DBT.
Cindy Lopez:
[00:05:34] It sounds like there are various tools that are part of DBT. What are your go to DBT strategies?
Kimm Angel:
[00:05:43] We like to use our entire family, just temperature, whether it’s crisis, whether it’s just slowly getting anxious, woke up anxious, going to bed anxious. Temperature it’s a huge part, so for example if, my teenager, she was going into a panic attack and I can tell there was no stopping, there was nothing I can do, and she couldn’t wrap her brain around what was happening, and her sense of reality was in another place. So we have Ziploc bags of blocks of ice. She grabs it, she goes outside and she slams it on the ground. So, not only is it the temperature, it’s also the sound and the force that she’s using herself to control her emotions. And that takes the level of anxiety to entire different level just down, like not gone, but to where we can start having conversations. I actually use this myself, if I wake up and I have too much on my mind and my mind starts going, I actually have ice balls in my freezer and I do my face care and I rub it all over my face and it just cools my whole being for the day and really sets my day up for success. So I feel like temperature, is our main tool we use for any level of anxiety or emotional dysregulation.
Cindy Lopez:
[00:07:07] Yeah, that’s interesting. I’ve never thought about that in terms of, I use ice packs all the time, like, cause you know, I have headaches I’ve learned to sleep with them just because now it’s calming to me. So, Kimm, can you talk a little bit about your family’s experience as you learned about and implemented DBT strategies? How did that go? Did your kids accept it right away, like extended family, how did that go?
Kimm Angel:
[00:07:36] It was all over the place. No situation with each family member was the same, everybody was different. The most important buy in of course was my teenager. And we had been experiencing anxiety and then self-harming and we just had a real, transparent conversation and it started with, this is not working and I am scared, I am fearful and I’m assuming that you are too. And this is out of my pay grade. I’m definitely skilled and have the qualities to be a parent, but this is way better and beyond what I know, and this is when we need to leave it to the professionals. So I’d lead with that and told her it’s 12 weeks, and we’re just going to see how we’re going to do what we’re going to learn, cause we will learn something, no matter what. And it was at first you’re like 12 weeks and it was over winter break, I remember and it went by fast and it was a life changing. By the third week, we saw a huge difference in our family. The rest of the family, they didn’t really buy in too much. It was hard and I’m divorced, so this is really where I had to use my DBT skills. So just trying to figure out a way with the other parent, regardless if it’s a good or a bad relationship, just being on the same page or at least in the same book.
[00:09:02] My older daughter, she loved the jargon in a silly way. So sometimes if we were arguing my teenager and I we would just shout out, “I am emotionally dysregulated right now, I’m going to walk away” and she would just be like, what are you guys talking about. So it was almost comical for her. But by the end of the 12 weeks, she was really seeing a difference in our family in general and seeing the value of DBT. So once things got started, it was great. The beginning is really, really tough to get everybody on board, but just be kind to yourself, graceful to others. You’re all in it and you’re all fearful, and so all you can do at that moment is control your emotions and how you’re going to react.
Cindy Lopez:
[00:09:47] Thank you for tuning in! Just a note, before we continue on with today’s episode, we hope you’re following us on social media, so you don’t need to wait a whole week between episodes to get engaging, inspiring and educational content from CHC. Our social handles are linked on our podcast webpage at podcasts.chconline.org.
[00:10:10] Kimm, how long ago was it that you started the DBT work? Like how long have you been using DBT skills in your family?
Kimm Angel:
[00:10:19] It has been about two and a half years. Yeah. Wow. I didn’t even think about that. Yeah. And we still practice them, we still use them. We use them like it’s just a regular life daily skill. And I really, truly believe that DBT belongs in schools as just even a health unit. They’re tools that we already know exist, we just forget that they’re there.
Cindy Lopez:
[00:10:42] And it sounds like tools that are good for everyone. Like clearly good evidence-based tools for kids that are experiencing that kind of severe depression and self-harming behavior, but in addition to that, I think everybody can use them and benefit from them.
So speaking of that, so CHC, has a DBT skills group that we run. And if you’re listening to this and you’re interested in that or thinking that that might be a good option for your family please visit us at chconline.org and choose clinical services or teen therapy services, you can find everything you need there. And as Kimm said, we have a care team, they will be your first point of contact with CHC when you call in, and they’re great in terms of listening to you and figuring out how to help you and guide you to next steps. So, getting back to Kimm, if there’s one thing that you hope our listeners would take away after hearing this episode, what would that be?
Kimm Angel:
[00:11:52] You know, your child best. There’s something that a parent knows more than anybody and when there’s something wrong or something, even just a quick thought of maybe my child needs this call. Call your doctor, call CHC, and the worst case scenario is your child doesn’t need this. And giving the opportunity to definitely do what you can to take a DBT course or skills group. You’re not overreacting and you are a good parent and this is why you have these thoughts.
Cindy Lopez:
[00:12:28] So your point about parents knowing their child best is really an important one. When I was working in schools with parents, when they’re concerned about their kids, they often came to me and said, I’m not sure should I pay attention to this, should I be concerned? And I was head of a school for kids at Sand Hill School here at CHC for kids with learning and attention challenges. And so I said to them, if, you know, if you’re here talking to me, let’s trust your gut. Like there’s something going on that you should pay attention to. And also, I think well-meaning friends and family try to help and say things like, well you know, it’s just attention seeking behavior or they’re just not trying hard enough or something like that. And the fact is, if it is attention, seeking behavior then why, so that’s still something to pay attention to and if it’s for kids with learning challenges, we were talking about, you know, oh, they look like they’re lazy or whatever. No, it’s just really hard for them. What we want to do is give our kids every tool and every advantage that they can use to really be successful in their lives and feel like they’ve accomplished what they set out to do. So Kimm, do you have any final comments that you want to share?
Kimm Angel:
[00:13:50] Yeah, like you had mentioned family and friends, they mean well, they aren’t out to make you feel bad, they’re really there to help you brainstorm. And when you’re in that crisis mode as a parent, there’s no time for brainstorming. And I chose very wisely on the people I chose to tell certain things to. So as a parent going in, the few things that I felt that I benefited from most was I found two people that I trusted and one was the person that I tell everything to and just kind of agrees, or I mad with you, or I’m fearful with you and just that emotional side. And then my brother was more of the rational side of, okay, this is what I would do. So that’s where also wise mind kind of came in, there were three different people and I was the wise mind, and I would pull that together and usually my decisions on treatment came from those conversations of those two people. The other thing was I felt more often than not I heard family and friends and loved ones meant well, saying, do you think she’s seeking attention? Is this because you moved out of state? Or even she just doesn’t seem that she cares much or we’ll just even use the lazy part. There clearly is a skill that is missing in there regardless. And if they are seeking attention, there is something wrong, there is a challenge that we were having and it needs to be addressed because this is not just missing this class assignment. This is the child’s mental health, and this is where you can come in as a parent and help guide them before they become adults and get these skills so they can live a long, healthy life and lifestyle. The last I would say is get a therapist, not just for your normal therapy that you have your own struggles with, but have a professional to have these conversations with, they are the best at helping you make those choices and then walk away feeling good about it with zero self doubt. So those are the main things I think for yourself as a parent, going through, just reminders and things to have in place.
Cindy Lopez:
[00:16:10] Thank you, Kimm. Thank you so much for being with us today and sharing your story and your personal journey. I know it’s probably not easy to talk about sometimes, but we really appreciate your authenticity and sharing it. So, to our listeners, thank you for joining us, and we hope that you’ll listen in again next week to our Voices of Compassion podcast series. And also on our podcast episode page, you’ll find reading resources on this topic. So if you want to find out more, check out that page and check out the resources there that might help you figure out next steps. Thank you Kimm, thanks so much for joining us today.
Kimm Angel:
[00:16:54] Great. Thanks for having me.
Cindy Lopez:
[00:16:56] Find us online at podcasts.chconline.org. Also, please follow us on our socials. Find us on Facebook at chc.paloalto and Twitter and Instagram at CHC_paloalto. You can also visit our YouTube channel at chconlinepaloalto. And we are on LinkedIn. Subscribe to Voices of Compassion on Apple podcasts, Spotify and other podcast apps, and sign up for a virtual village email list so you never miss an update or an episode. I always love to hear from you so send me an email or a voice memo at podcasts@chconline.org or leave us a rating and review. We look forward to you tuning in each week. After all we are in this together. See you next week.
