Different & Diverse

Cindy Lopez:
Welcome. My name is Cindy Lopez, the host of this CHC podcast, Voices of Compassion. We hope you find a little courage, feel connected and experience compassion every time you listen.

Today’s episode is a special one for young adults. So to our listeners, if you’re not a young adult please share this episode with the young adults in your life. We hope that they’ll find it inspiring and insightful. You know, navigating a learning difference and/or a mental health challenge is difficult enough. And when you add racial and ethnic diversity into the mix, the inequities and complexities of the journey are magnified. In today’s episode we talk with Dr. Melina Foden, Licensed Clinical Psychologist at CHC and Atira Roberson, a young adult who’s both different and diverse. We also have a guest host for this special episode, my colleague, Natalie Tamburello, who’s invested the past several years learning about and talking to young adults with learning differences. So listen to Natalie’s conversation with Atira and Melina about the experiences of young adults and individuals, navigating the diagnosis process, accessing accommodations, combating stigma and staying resilient as students with both invisible and visible diverse identities. Take it away, Natalie.

Natalie Tamburello:
My name is Natalie Tamburello, and I’m a member of the Community Connections team at CHC, and I’m honored to be hosting this episode. Welcome Melina and Atira to this podcast.

Melina Foden:
Thanks, Natalie. Hi everyone. My name is Dr. Melina Foden. I’m a licensed clinical psychologist here at CHC, and I am so excited to be here today to discuss a topic that is incredibly important to me both personally and professionally as a Latina clinician.

Atira Roberson:
Hi everybody. My name is Atira Roberson. I am from Hot Springs, Arkansas, born and raised. I currently work for Little Rock School District as a community school coordinator. I am also in my free time an advocate for people like me who deal with learning disabilities. My official learning disability is dyslexia, dyscalculia, and I also have ADHD, and I’ve been a full-time advocate for about two to three years. So any opportunity I can get to help someone via sharing my story, I’m definitely willing to do cause I wanna see more people like me in this movement, ones that look like me and especially the ones you know that don’t.

Natalie Tamburello:
Thanks so much for both of you being here. I want to set the stage first for our discussion because we know that diversity and difference comes in many combinations and varieties, but today we’re really focusing on race, ethnicity, and learning differences and mental health differences and how those identities impact each other and how society perceives them impacts each other. So I want to talk about when you have a learning difference and/or a mental health challenge, and you’re also a person of color, how does that relationship with those two different identities develop? What is it like having a visible and an invisible identity, and how does that shape you?

Atira Roberson:
I can definitely say it is a delicate balance, you know? I’m black, I’m female, and I have a learning disability. Those three things, you know, can shock some people. I know for me all of it is important. So if you do not equally see all of them, you know, then you don’t see me. I will always be a black female with a learning disability. I will always, you know, as of this past year and a half, be making sure that my mental health, is a priority, which is something that you unfortunately do not see in our black communities, and because it’s something that is almost kind of taboo.

I was definitely ashamed to make it a priority because you can handle everything. You’re strong and blah, blah, blah, all this that and that and other. Now I’m tired of being strong all the time. I can’t do everything I would like to that is unrealistic, but that’s okay. You know, and learning how to strategically carry everything, I think is the one thing that has helped me along the way in the beginning, as far as, you know, society’s perception, very ashamed. I did not talk about my learning disability, let alone mental health, five years ago. If you would’ve told me I would be doing something like this, I would’ve probably laughed at you like you were crazy and went on about my day because that’s just not what I was surrounded by.

Natalie Tamburello:
Can you talk more about that for a second and maybe about how five years ago you wouldn’t be having this conversation and what changed?

Atira Roberson:
Absolutely. Cause I did not see value in myself or my story or anything that I encountered. I was very, very, low confidence, and I just wanna make it clear I still do have those days. I think because I have been so persistent in this movement for so long. I definitely give the appearance of, oh, she’s strong, and she’s a powerhouse. Yes I am all those things, but… sis is tired. You know, the only reason I keep going is because I know I am a part of something that is far bigger than me. And you know, there are not enough black or brown voices that surround the conversation of equity and inclusion when we are talking about what is needed for students who deal with learning disabilities and mental health.

So I think I keep going because surely some way, somehow I know I can make some kind of change. That’s why you know if I get a call, “hey, do you wanna come to so-and-so and speak?” I’m not saying yes for myself. I’m saying yes because I know there is a bigger purpose. Somewhere out there, there is someone who looks exactly like me who is dealing with this. They just haven’t had a chance to see someone like them in this movement, sharing their voice, sharing their story, not only sharing it, but owning it, which is definitely not easy. Sometimes it’s uncomfortable, even though I’ve been doing this for like three years now or so, but I know that you have to get to a certain point to where you tune everyone and everything else out otherwise you’re never gonna be able to walk fully in your purpose. You know, people may think it’s bad, people are triggered by the word disability. People are triggered by mental health.

So I think also what we can continue to do is not only have these conversations, but you know, apply what we learn in these conversations. And slowly but surely, I think over time we will see these negative emotions and connotations dissipate when people say, “I am learning disabled, I struggle with mental health, you know, I have anxiety, I have this and that” because I mean, let’s be real when you hear that stuff, people automatically think, oh my gosh, oh my gosh. You know, going back to the black community, we don’t talk about that. What goes on in this house stays in this house. You’re fine. Go wash the dishes and keep going about your day. No, I’m not okay. And it’s okay to not be okay, but what’s not okay is you don’t do anything about it because you’re worried about what’s gonna be going on around you in the potential fallback.

This has been a slow evolution to ownership and acceptance of who I am and what I am. It is not, you know, that easy. It is stressful. Sometimes I do not want to be bothered. Sometimes, I cry and that’s okay. I can be this advocate, I can be this passionate person, but I can also break down when I need to around the right people who can be there for me and you know, keep going. And I think that is also a very important piece of the recipe to ownership and acceptance. And even balancing dealing with learning and attention issues is who you have around you. You know, if you don’t necessarily have the greatest family members, make sure you have some good friends cause friends are an extension of your family. I firmly believe that and you are the company you keep. So it is just kind of this ever so often consistent evaluation of who you are, what’s going on around you, who you have around you and you know who you have on that journey.

Natalie Tamburello:
You’ve touched on a lot of topics. It, really points out to me that this is not a simple question and that there’s so much wrapped up behind it, and I’m curious, Melina, from a clinical perspective, what do you see in your clients with this identity development and journey.

Melina Foden:
Well first off, I felt like a bobblehead just now with everything that Atira was saying. I mean, we were just like nodding like again and again, and I really appreciated your perspective and it’s so incredibly valuable and so happy that we’re able to talk about this together. I was thinking about for me, something similar in that you touched on intersectionalities, and I think about the importance of recognizing intersecting identities. Intersectionality is a very important consideration when thinking about diversity matters because no one’s cultural identity exists in a vacuum. And our racial and our ethnic identities are constantly interfacing with the many other cultural identities that each of us hold, whether that be our socioeconomic status, our religious beliefs, and even the generations that we grew up in.

And so it makes sense, right, that our racial and ethnic identities very much inform our mental health. And I would even argue that our mental health can impact dimensions of our cultural identities. So it’s a two-way street. And as a society, we’re gradually becoming more aware and discussing how factors like racism can very much negatively affect our mental health, specifically for people of color. For example, we know that the experience of racial trauma can increase the chances of developing PTSD, otherwise known as post-traumatic stress disorder for people of color. And then on the flip side, I wanna point out that for many of us who identify as people of color and choose to lean into this identity, that we also have those protective factors, including the support networks and important values and beliefs that boost our resiliency and help us navigate mental health challenges.

But I think what you were saying at Atira about how it’s hard to be strong and carry all this all the time. And I think it’s super important to lean into the supports that we have and hopefully we’ll be able to talk a little bit more about that later about how supports for everyone look different. It may not be your nuclear family, right? It’s leaning into just whatever community means to you, and sometimes we need someone else to shoulder that with because it’s heavy. It’s very heavy. I’m thinking about the mental health of a lot of the marginalized folks that I worked with during the times of the pandemic, right? During the times of a lot of advocacy surrounding racial trauma, surrounding the murders of black and brown folks. Specifically, I’m thinking of the murder of George Floyd and everything that happened surrounding that and how that affected the mental health of black folks, but more broadly thinking about how in general that feeling of not having a break, right? Because you can’t turn off this identity, there’s no turning it off, and yet there’s so much to shoulder and having that support and how incredibly important that is, right to keep going.

Atira Roberson:
Oh, absolutely.

Natalie Tamburello:
Yeah. What I’m hearing from Atira and you Melina is that it’s important not to negate the invisible identity, like it’s intertwined with the visible and ethnic racial difference that you have and interact with each other and that we shouldn’t negate the things that you might be able to hide or share and disclose whenever you feel like it. I think that’s an important point to make really clear.

The next thing I want to talk about is identification and what identification of a learning disability or a mental health challenge looks like for people of color. And when you look at the research, there’s really two stories happening: either students of color are being under-identified where we see reading disabilities, other behavioral indicators are being incorrectly attributed to race or cultural differences due to conscious or unconscious bias and so students aren’t receiving appropriate support at all, or the opposite is happening, where they’re getting over-identified or incorrectly identified as having a behavioral issue or an intellectual disability, even though they’re demonstrating the same exact challenges as their white peers who are being identified with learning and mental health differences. So it seems like there’s no one hitting the nail on the head, right? So what advice Melina would you give to parents or students who may be experiencing this institutionalized inequity and are struggling to access appropriate support for their students?

Melina Foden:
I think this one for me goes back to that first point I was making back when I was talking about socioeconomic status as a cultural identity, how I wish this did not impact resources for our students of color, but the reality is that it does. And that acknowledgement is incredibly important because socioeconomic status of families can play a huge deciding role in the cities and the areas that folks live in, which also determine what school districts and ultimately what schools kids are placed in.

And as all the parent listeners surely know, the resources in schools can be pretty drastically different depending on where you live. And that said, the best advice I can give parents and students facing inequity is that you have a lot more power than you think you do to advocate for support and accommodations. And it’s important that parents and students alike know what services that they may be entitled to under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, also an aka IDEA Act because it requires that students with disabilities be given an education that is appropriate to their needs. The hard part is that sometimes folks do not know what they’re entitled to within school services, which is completely fair. It’s not like you’re given a manual, right, when you have a kid or you discover within yourself as a student that you have challenges.

For this one, I’ll, I’ll give a shout out to, I really like the Parents Helping Parents’ website. It’s one that I frequently give out to my clients and families I work with. I think they offer some really great toolkits for folks interested in learning more about school accommodations. And second, that asking for support can be really tough for folks and present as a roadblock itself. And if seeking help is something that is hard for someone to seek those accommodations within the the school, I would encourage them to do a thorough classic pros and cons list of seeking that support and give me each side a fair shot, including those short-term and long-term effects of seeking support versus not.

And remember that you do not have to advocate alone, that therapists can help advocate. And there’s also really great parent groups out there. And the other piece is, and I will say this time and time again, the importance of making sure to incorporate plenty of self-care, because advocacy is often very hard and it’s emotionally laborsome work, incredibly so. And so it’s important that we learn to recharge to come back stronger for these efforts.

Natalie Tamburello:
Atira can you talk to this at all, like what were your experiences in getting accommodations or getting identified with dyslexia or ADHD, and how was that experience like for you?

Atira Roberson:
When I started out in my education career, I went to Catholic private school. During that time, I can’t recall the exact age, but I know it was during elementary school age my parents pulled me out and put me into the public education system, and once I was put into this school, it was a performing arts school, during that first maybe year and a half or so, or maybe when I had approached the second grade, my parents had me tested for learning disabilities, and that’s when they found out what I had. Now, I myself was not aware of what I had until years later down the road when I got into college, I just was not told. A lot of it was kept from me. A lot of what parents can and cannot access is heavily impacted by what the district has funding wise to work with.

I’m learning that now because I work at a Title One school, all of our kids are facing some type of poverty one way or another. They need help. We just don’t have it to give it to them. So, how do parents navigate this? You know, you have to stay vigilant. Do the best you can to educate yourself cause I can tell you for a fact if it was not for my mom being that dominant person going into those meetings, asking questions that needed to be asked. Did she make them uncomfortable? Absolutely. But then at that point, like, I’m not sorry, you’re gonna let my child fall through the cracks if I don’t hold you accountable. If it wasn’t for my mom, I can guarantee you I probably very well could have fell through the cracks. You know, I got pulled out, and I had to repeat first grade because I could not read.

So having someone there who is able to ask those questions, and even if you don’t know what to ask, that’s okay, do your research. There are so many resources I have learned through the years of being involved in this advocacy work that are out there. But I think also maybe a part of the issue is it’s not in digestible language. Like, if you’re not from this movement, you’re not gonna know a lot of what this stuff means. Our parents are going to have to roll up their sleeves and get to work and take notes, look at some YouTube videos, ask questions, set up a little parenting group. I mean, you’d be surprised at what you can find out when you just sit down and talk to people, even if it’s for like 10 to 15 minutes. You know there’s strength in numbers and when you start peeling layers back and reading and researching you can go to these school board meetings. That’s what people don’t think about. A lot of the stuff that impacts our kids happen on a state and local level. Go to these meetings, press for these questions. Not only press for them, but demand that they be answered. And if they don’t, then that’s just more reason for you to keep going because a lot of the reasons why things happen the way they do is because they don’t see a lot of active parents, active black parents in these schools.

Mike:
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Natalie Tamburello:
I wanna circle back Atira. You said that you did not know that you had a learning disability until college, even though you were identified in elementary school, right?

So, tell me more about that. Why was that happening?

Atira Roberson:
I knew when I got pulled out, I was going to resource room, which is special ed, but that’s what they called it at the elementary school I went to. And then in high school I would have resource math because I have a math learning disability. It’s a manifestation of specific learning disability, which is like a processing delay, and so I definitely struggled.

I was very much shielded. For the most part I was in mainstream classes, as you like to call it. But until my senior year I was given this like, exit packet, I guess, if you wanna call it. And it had a copy of my IEP and pretty much everything I was ever tested on. Now I was also in those IEP meetings, but it was at the very end when, you know, paperwork had to be signed. And then sometimes I wasn’t made aware that my mom was even in the building coming to have an IEP meeting, which I think is extremely unfair. And you can’t not include me in a conversation about me, you know, am I gonna understand what is going on and all the lingo? Of course not, but I know me better than anyone else.

Going back to when I discovered this stuff in college, I had all of my documentation. I went to disability services and gave them all of it. And one night, a friend and I, freshman year we were at her house and we just like opened everything. Looked at specific learning disability, and then we were just like digging and researching and Googling. And that’s how I found out what this was and how it impacted me.

And then my senior year I enrolled in nonprofit management class, and we had to do individual projects, and I was trying to figure out, well, what non-profit would I wanna use? And so I was in the disability lab digging and researching like I normally do. And I found out about National Center for Learning Disabilities. And so I was like, oh, you know, I can use them for my non-profit project. Then I found out that they have a young adult leadership council. And I was like, oh, you know, so I took a leap of faith and yes so everything has been strategically aligned. Had I not took that class, I wouldn’t have found out about NCLD, and I wouldn’t have been sitting in front of you today.

Natalie Tamburello:
You wouldn’t have met me.

Atira Roberson:
I’m telling you, I believe in divine timing, but that just goes back to the accessibility thing. If you don’t know where to go, and you’re not somebody like me who doesn’t mind digging, you’re not gonna do it. Not necessarily because you don’t want to, but you just like, where do you start in this? This isn’t something that is just at the fresh of everyone’s minds.

Natalie Tamburello:
Yeah. And you know what’s hard about listening to your story, Atira, is that you’re not the first student who I’ve heard that story from, knowing that something was going on, I had an IEP but don’t know anything about the IEP, and then not until college that they really have this new self-discovery this learning difference identity, mental health identity, without the influence of other people’s concerns about weighing you down too much with yet another label.

Atira Roberson:
It’s definitely, you know, great that I had this aha moment, but maybe what would’ve happened if I would’ve had that aha moment, back in high school during my freshman year, I probably wouldn’t have gotten bullied as much, I was an easy target, because I was ashamed and I didn’t know anything about me you know, when it came to that stuff and had I had the time to really own it, then it would’ve been maybe a little bit easier.

You cannot sugarcoat this stuff, we have got to call it what it is. You will hear me say learning and attention issues or learning disability. I use those terms interchangeably. I know right now we have a lot of people saying learning and attention issues more consistently, which is fine. I use them interchangeably. I like to say learning disability personally myself because I know it’s gonna make people uncomfortable and we need to get comfortable with being uncomfortable, you know? So let’s do it.

Natalie Tamburello:
I’m all about reclaiming the word disability, all about it. Owning it, like being given the opportunity to own it.

Atira Roberson:
Absolutely. Because I spent too much of my early years, you know, being ashamed of who I was and how different it was for me, and I’m not, you know, gonna give anybody that power again. Like you don’t get to break me more than once.

Natalie Tamburello:
This is a perfect time, I think to segue into the next question because we’re kind of dancing around the subject of stigma and the stigma associated with mental health and learning differences in general, but also how is it maybe different for people of color and their community in various cultures? And how does stigma impact this identification process and access to care? Melina, I don’t know if you wanna talk about that first.

Melina Foden:
It’s a big one the stigma within mental health. My goodness. I think this goes for of course marginalized communities, but I would say even those that hold privilege, I think everyone receives different messaging surrounding mental health, right? Even the absence of messaging, silence regarding mental health in your family is messaging around mental health, right? And so we all grew up in different communities and that maybe talk about it more at school, maybe they don’t, generations of course very big differences as well. I’m very proud of our generation nowadays where it seems to be more of a incorporation of mental health talk, but I might be super biased given that I’m literally a therapist and my entire circle is mental health, but I would like to think so.

Historically marginalized folks have been very much impacted by the medical community, and that includes psychology and psychiatry who have played major parts in oppressive and racist actions, right? And so I think the stigma for mental health is informed by, understandably so, a lack of trust, right? And so there might be messaging surrounding things to just keep it in or keep it within the family. And don’t go out for help because you can’t trust those folks, right?

And I think it’s super important for us as clinicians to learn about that, learn about the history of psychology, and learn how to do better, And honoring that folks come in with not just their own stuff, but we talk a lot about generational trauma, right? And what has been passed down around mental health or just anything associated with big organizations within the medical community, right? And so, I think the way that we get through this is by talking about it and honoring it. And, it’s an incredibly tough subject because we have to first acknowledge as a field that we have wronged. And I think that’s very uncomfortable.

And we were talking before, Atira you were saying like, you know, I like to make things uncomfortable so folks can just get used to it. And I fully agree, and I think when it comes to discussing matters of diversity, you have to be uncomfortable. You have to lean into it. If you are not, you’re probably not pushing hard enough, right? And it’s, it’s a journey. And one thing that we talk about in training circles and you know, when I was trained to be a clinician, is this concept of cultural humility as opposed to cultural competence.

You cannot assume that you already know all there is to know when it comes to diversity matters. There is always something more to learn, and that is cultural humility at its finest, is that knowing and accepting that you have information, whether that’s through books, whether that’s through your learned lived experiences, whether that’s through listening to others, right, or combination of all the above. And there is always something else that you don’t know about of someone else’s experiences. And then again, those intersectionalities about how those cultural identities all combined in this very complicated way.

Atira Roberson:
Oh, yes, definitely. I completely agree that a lot of the issue, which I feel like this is kind of multi-pronged, is for sure because of what the medical community has done to people of color. But also on the same token, it is what goes on at home and the conversations that we have surrounding these type of things. You know, I think I had said in the beginning, I know for sure within the black community, we just have this really toxic, nasty, unhealthy thing of what goes on in this house, stays in this. Absolutely not. You can best believe if it’s wrong, I’m gonna say something and if that makes you uncomfortable or we don’t speak again, then I’m not sorry.

Some things are just 100% never acceptable and we have to, you know, quit sweeping things under the rug. Cause I also had that happen to me a lot when I was growing up. We don’t necessarily sometimes address things because going back to what you said, it’s uncomfortable, it hurts, you know, nobody wants that, but you have to sit in it, acknowledge it, see what’s going on, clean it out, and then you know, let’s go. But until we have those conversations from within our own homes and houses and circles, then going out into the community for help is gonna be even harder because you don’t have the community and support from within.

So going back to breaking down the stigma and turning around and attaching positive things to it because I was very much in a dark hole for a while. It was bad. You know, at one point I contemplated suicide. That is real. I’m not saying that so people can feel sorry for me, but it’s real. I went there and that’s not somewhere I ever thought I could go, but you can get in the dark, and I didn’t talk about it to anybody because who am I gonna go to, you know? And like I said, one family member was like, oh, do you need pills? On the other hand, it just wasn’t what we talked about growing up, you know, in my house or even with, you know, my other family members. But now, you know, through the years, it’s become slowly but surely something we can talk about.

And I think it’s gonna take a long time for us to get it to where it needs to be, but some progress I think is better than no progress at all. So, you know, kind of circling back in when we start and take care of what’s going on inside, then we can go out and address what’s out there because we have more of a unified front and we have power with us to go and go after those doctors and nurses and clinics and hold them accountable for what they’re doing or what they’re not doing. Cause sometimes you know what you can access, but they don’t wanna give it to you or they’ll charge you a ridiculously obscene price in comparison to other people.

Melina Foden:
Atira, I appreciate so much what you said and found it so powerful because that piece right about keeping it in, right, and not seeking support is a cycle that is extraordinarily hard to break. And the fact that you did that, and not only that, I mean you’re very clearly an outspoken advocate, right? Like you’re doing this podcast, I think that just speaks to the power of it just takes one person to break the the cycle.

Atira Roberson:
Oh, absolutely.

Natalie Tamburello:
It was exactly what I was gonna say. I said like if I were to walk away with any advice from what you have both said is that you need to find your person who will be there for you.

Atira Roberson:
Oh absolutely and I can, yeah, and let me tell you, my church family has been very, very supportive.

Natalie Tamburello:
So what happens then Melina, when a situation like Atira happens and a student feels like they can’t access care because the family is not supportive of it? What would you recommend to that student?

Melina Foden:
The first thing realistically is I would really validate that student to let them know that they’re certainly not alone and that some families have a harder time accepting mental health, right? And that can be very, very challenging to feel like you need help and perhaps you’re not getting permission, so to speak, to get it. Or also, you know, realistically resources aren’t there, right? Therapy is very expensive and if we go back to that intersectionality of race and ethnicity with socioeconomic status, who is able to access these kinds of services, right? And the second thing I would do is I’d say if you are in need of support, therapy is not the only place you can get it, lean into any sort of support, right? So Atira mentioned her church. Absolutely If you have any sort of religious faith, lean into that.

And, and even then, if you do have a therapist and your faith is very important to you, I encourage you to tell your therapist that. And we can absolutely incorporate aspects of your faith. We might have to do a little bit more research if we’re unfamiliar with aspects of your faith to make it really personalized But that’s absolutely, and for us, it’s, it’s seen as a huge protective factor, meaning it’s something that makes you even more strong and more resilient. But for those that for many reasons aren’t able to access therapy, leaning into your centers of faith, are you part of a sports team, talk to your sports team. Talk to your coach. Lean into different groups out there like the YMCA, the Boys and Girls Club, leaning into your teachers at school, your principal. Is there some mentor that you have, right? Finding your person. It just takes one. A trusted adult that you can confide in makes a very big difference, right? And hopefully to that person, they can seek services later on if they’d like to.

Natalie Tamburello:
You know, Melina, you were just talking about protective factors and that kind of leads into this next question, which is how do you persevere? How do you maintain your self-worth? You know, we hear all the time that marginalized students, students who are black and brown, who also have learning disabilities or mental health challenges, are the ones who quote unquote fall through the cracks. And so what are the protective factors that keep you persevering, that keep yourself worth high, that allows you Atira to be successful and feel like, you know, life is worth living and going on and being an advocate.

Melina Foden:
I think it goes back to resiliency. I think those that have had to face struggles as marginalized communities have had to are incredibly resilient, sometimes not by choice, right? That’s what Atira was speaking to beforehand is that sometimes you don’t wanna be strong, but it seems like you have no choice. It’s not an identity that you have chosen, right? And that resiliency is extraordinarily powerful. And that resiliency can also come with natural supports, right? And I think the important thing to take away as well is this is why it’s so important to have these talks, right? Because when there is so much that folks have to face, it’s important to give them spaces where they can lean into for support and also just be seen, just be seen. And so these conversations are important. Creating intentional spaces are important. And also making sure that marginalized folks are part of those platforms, right? And loudly so, not quietly so. And that’s why I’m very thankful for this conversation because it allows me to keep learning, right? And also highlighting the experiences, lived experiences of people like Atira, right? Which is invaluable to all of us because that’s how we keep learning, and that’s how we have those voices heard.

Atira Roberson:
I think what has really kept me going is knowing that this is bigger than me. I am just included in it. You know, that is the only reason why I can get up every morning and keep fighting as draining, as and tired as it is. You know, I know that there’s a bigger purpose. And, you know, having my faith to lean back on when I can’t keep it all together, and knowing that it’s gonna be okay. It’s not gonna be this dreaded, painful, stressful thing forever. You can only do so much.

Give yourself credit for what you have accomplished thus far. Take it one day at a time and own that. It is okay. You don’t owe anyone else an explanation, but you, and just, you know, going back to utilizing people around you. Reach out when you’re about to have a complete and total breakdown. You know, lean on the right people and this will be a little bit easier to bear.

Natalie Tamburello:
What is a key takeaway you want our listeners to think about as we’re wrapping up this episode?

Melina Foden:
I’d encourage everyone listening to take a moment to reflect on your own intersectioning identities and think about the ways in which you seek support and what has helped you be able to seek that support and then challenge yourself to think about how that might be difficult for someone that looks different than you do, or in ways that you don’t even know about because we’re talking also about those invisible identities, right? So I think it’s important when we’re thinking about support, acknowledging our own privileges and expressing that gratitude, and for listeners that have those marginalized identities, remembering that you’re stronger than you think you have that resiliency and finding that safe space, whatever safe means for you.

Atira Roberson:
If you don’t hear anything else out of this is that you matter and there is value in what you have to say, share it with someone somewhere, somehow. Do you have to end up on the big stage, so to speak and go to conferences and whatnot? No, but you’d be surprised at what you could share and who you could connect with at the bread aisle of Walmart. You know, you are connected to someone who knows someone else, who knows someone else, who is also dealing with navigating life as someone who is learning disabled. So continue this conversation and start this movement in a way that works for you. Don’t short sell yourself.

Natalie Tamburello:
Wow. I just wanna thank you both for your honesty and bringing your personal experiences and your professional experiences to this conversation. I think it really enriched our discussion here today, and I just wanna have a little bit of a reminder for our listeners that CHC is here to support you and we have many free resources. In addition to this podcast, we have a resource library. We have parent support groups, we have collaboratives for our school counselors and learning specialists, all of which are free resources to you. If you are in need of additional support, you can always contact our clinical services department by emailing the careteam@chconline.org, that’s careteam@chconline.org. And if you’re a high school or college student with a learning difference, we also have the Schwab Learning Center, which also can be found at chconline.org/slc. Thank you both.

Atira Roberson:
Thank you.

Melina Foden:
Thank you.

Cindy Lopez:
Visit us online at podcasts.chconline.org. Make sure to subscribe to Voices of Compassion so you never miss an episode, and we’d love it if you’d leave us a rating and review. Have a question? Send us an email or a voice memo at podcasts@chconline.org. We’re here for you when you need us.